I cannot say that I am happy with last night's election results. In fact, I am quite disappointed.
While I am disappointed that two people I respect and admire lost an election, it is not the first time that has happened to me. Like most of us, I am old enough to have seen a number of people I respect lose an election. That is politics.
I am most disappointed, however, that the educational future of 420 Orange County children will remain in doubt for at least two more years. After a bitter 14 months, last night's election results, for me, meant another two years of generally boring Board meetings, countless interviews with the media, and a need to closely watch the coming Board's every action.
The results were not the best case scenario many of us had hoped for - the long-term security of year-round education and the knowledge that our children would not be expelled from their school.
However, I cannot believe it could possibly be worse than the disaster wrought by Liz Brown and Dennis Whitling.
I have high hopes that Tony McKnight and Eddie Eubanks are reasonable men who will actually do something to help the children struggling in Orange County's two lowest performing schools, rather than the current Board majority's tendency to pay lip service to their needs while pursuing a social experiment in our schools.
It is a travesty that Al Hartkopf will not be returning to the Board for another term, his willingness to frankly discuss issues, clearly avoided by others, may have caused him to be labeled "divisive," but it also made him a strong representative for his constituents. To be divisive in an ocean of hypocrisy is no vice.
But, if some voters chose not to support Al because of his frank, confrontational style, more chose to ramp it up a notch in voting for Steve Halkiotis. Anyone who spends more than five minutes in a room with Dr. H cannot help but look forward to the firebrand's time on the Board.
Like I said, yesterday's election did not result in the best case scenario for HES, but neither did it result in the worst case. We have already lived through the worst situation and it only made us more resolved, more aware, more organized and ready to continue the work of advocating for our children.
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83 comments:
"Anyone who spends more than five minutes in a room with Dr. H cannot help but look forward to the firebrand's time on the Board."
I disagree with your premise. The Board meetings are long enough, but now we will listen to Steve beat a dead horse into oblivion. You think Liz was bad? Take Liz's ability to talk and talk and talk, and add a brain, and presto, Steve Halkiotis comes out!
I will say that Steve has great ideas that will improve education in Orange County. He's been around the block for sure. He's also a very caring person. I'm just warning you that he will not be someone you want to argue with.
Bill B.
This is wrong! Al has worked so hard, and now he's the resulted consequence with Liz's ultra liberal agenda. She's taking so much enjoyment out of our misery, and it MAKES ME MAD!!!
Let's all attend the Board meetings in May and June and speak up to the current board about what will happen to HES the next 2 years. Make them tell us that they will leave us alone! We need to get up and speak our full 3 minutes about the importance of keeping HES open. We could get 40 parents speaking for 3 minutes, that would cause their meeting not to start until 9:00 pm. This would be groovy!
We need to repay Al for all his hard work. While Dennis and Liz was attacking everyone with their ultra liberal agenda, Al stood up for us.
I was surprised Hartkopf went down by the numbers he did...I was glad to see Dr Ha and McKnight get in though. McKnight seems a good guy, works with kids regularly, and even opposed a merger the last time it came up. Eubanks is unknown to me, so we'll have to see.
But I think McKnight and H are both positives
A simple analysis of the final vote counts by precinct and the election day activities by precinct, clearly reveal what happened with Al and Jeff. Al is a registered Republican. Jeff is registered Unaffiliated. At many of the polling places, the Orange County Democratic Party passed out sample ballots. Beside the Democratic school board candidates was written "Dem." Beside Al and Jeff there was nothing written. The winners: Eubanks, Halkiotis, McKnight. Democrats who followed the guide simply started at the top and voted for their available three. Stan Morris, also a Democrat, was the last (4th) Democrat on the ballot thus missed out. The Deomocatic Presidential Primary turned out an unprecedented number of Democrats. At the polling places where the "sample ballots" were passed out by the Orange County Democratic Party, Eubanks, Halkiotis, McKnight were victorious. In the precincts where there was no "sample ballot" given to Democratic voters, Al was the top vote getter. Jeff was in the top three.
This clearly shows that a non-partisan election was made partisan resulting in a skewed result. Were it not for the Orange County Democratic Party and their "sample ballot", the result would have been Hartkopf, Halkiotis, and Michalski.
There was simply no way for non-democrats or a Democrat whose name made him the fourth Democrat on the ballot to overcome the combination of unprecedently Democratic turnout and the "sample ballot" of the Orange County Democratic Party.
A"t many of the polling places, the Orange County Democratic Party passed out sample ballots."
This statement is true. It's also very legal, just like when people canvass a poling area for votes.
Let's stop making excuses. Al and Jeff lost, and we are upset with it. I'm so over it, and hopefully everyone else can get over it too.
Jackie F.
"There was simply no way for non-democrats or a Democrat whose name made him the fourth Democrat on the ballot to overcome the combination of unprecedently Democratic turnout and the "sample ballot" of the Orange County Democratic Party."
FYI--the school board is a non-partisan election. I'm not sure what the Democratic party had to do with Al's defeat (or Jeff's).
Face it, Al was not elected. Instead of handing out excuses, let's just accept that our candidates did not have as many votes as the other candidates. There were no butterfly ballots, no hanging chads. I doubt if Mr. Hartkopf would want us to make excuses for him--
Jacki F.,
I wasn't "making excuses" but rather responding to Anonymous 3:36, "I was surprised Hartkopf went down by the numbers he did". My post was meant as an explaination of the circumstance leading to the ending result.
I certainly never indicated that the Orange County Democratic Party had acted illegally. I do believe unethically but I did not even say that!
"This clearly shows that a non-partisan election was made partisan resulting in a skewed result."
I think your overreaching. Your analysis makes us look like sore losers. The best thing for Al and Jeff to do is to remain active with Orange County Schools. Losing the election is not nearly as bad as losing their valuable services.
"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
It is important we understand what happened in yesterday's school board election.
Indeed the school board election is officially non-partisan but when the OCD party chose to make it partisan by identifying dems. on a "sample ballot", they did indeed "have a lot to do with the election".
"I certainly never indicated that the Orange County Democratic Party had acted illegally. I do believe unethically but I did not even say that!"
There is nothing unethical about a political party passing out a voters guide, especially during the primaries, indicating the registered Democrats in the race. That is their choosing. What would be unethical is if they were passing out material stating that we should not vote for Jeff and Al because they are members of the Communist party. This would be unethical because it would be untrue.
Enough with this silly argument. Let's all show our class and at least give these men a chance.
Jackie F.
I do not see this thread as not "giving these men a chance". Actually, I found the original post and have found the subsequent posting to be about analysis not attack.
I agree with anonymous 3:05, "Let's attend the Board meetings and speak up to the current board about what will happen to HES in the next 2 years". Speaking up saved us in the past. We will be foolish if we now chose to sit out and take a wait and see attitude. The newly elected men need to see that we have and will continue to stand up for what we believe is right!
It is always easy to be a Monday morning quarterback.
Yes, the Orange County Democratic Party handed out sample ballots. They aren't the first ones to do it and probably won't be the last. With that being said, do you really believe that many voters are stupid enough to not think for themselves? Perhaps. But not likely.
Re-analyze the numbers. Then you will see the same force that got Hartkopf elected in 2004 also got him unelected in 2008. Look at the big picture. The 2008 Democratic Primary was a huge event for African American voters.
In 2004, Al heavily courted the African American vote. Al Hartkopf's name was on the sample ballot and endorsement sheets at all the African American polling locations. It made a difference and much to the surpise of the super liberal progessives like Liz Brown and Libbie Hough, it got him elected. Liz and Libbie though Al was running on "No Merger" while the entire time he was working the Northern Orange African American community.
In 2008, in a year when every African American was coming out of the woodworks to vote for Obama, Hartkopf didn't have the same alliances. Statistically speaking, African American voters always vote for African Americans. In a three-way race with two African American candidates, the third candidate who can also appeal the most to African Americans will do well also. Clearly Steve Halkiotis was not only popular with African Americans, but with the downtown Hillsborough liberals, the Northern Orange conservatives, and Southern Orange progressives as well. That was enough to make him top vote getter.
In some respects, this race was over the day filing closed. Had greater efforts been made to court the African American community, the outcome may have been slightly different. Maybe McKnight would have barely lost, but it would have been a long shot. It is tough to overcome the Orange County NAACP / Northern Orange County African American Caucus voting bloc.
"The newly elected men need to see that we have and will continue to stand up for what we believe is right!"
All three men are well aware of our cause. We need to reach out to them as opposed to being heavy handed. We need to "plant trees" as opposed to showing our anger like anonymous 3:05. When I read anonymous 3:05, I cringed. Comments like anonymous 3:05 form public opinion about our school.
T.D.
It is simply untrue that "all three men are well aware of our cause". Not having attended board meetings prior to filing for election, they cannot possibly by "well aware". Let's face it, not one of them attended every board meeting after filing. When two of them did attend, they frequently left early. One of them filed and never attended a single board meeting.
"This clearly shows that a non-partisan election was made partisan resulting in a skewed result. Were it not for the Orange County Democratic Party and their "sample ballot", the result would have been Hartkopf, Halkiotis, and Michalski."
This makes me very angry. Most don't bother taking the time to investigate what candidates atand for. They vote based on political party or race.
cheak out a post in the Results thread on Ruby's blog:
"Thank you so much for giving reasonable people in northern Orange County an outlet to voice our opinions! I've been so troubled by the scare tactics of the SAVE HES group led by Allan Scott. He has organized a team of conservative HES parents in an attempt to scare the School Board! It's revolting. HES is nothing more than a school that's population is over 80% white. The parents have done their best in the past to keep it that way. You can see the postings on savehes.blogspot.com to see Mr. Scott's not so hidden agenda. HES has taken so much money from the coffers of Orange County Schools that it's infringed on the SES disadvantaged students who could use additional services."
Are you kidding me?
When I early voted on the Saturday before election day, I cannot tell you how many voters were standing around me reading the voters guide. As you approached the library, there was a tent manned by the OCD Party.
Each voter was offered a Dem. voting guide. Same happened on election day when I was a poll worker. At the poll I worked, the door remained open. I cannot tell you how many voters took the voters guide and sample ballot and could be clearly seen reading down it as they marked their ballots. I have heard similiar reports from other HES parents who worked the polls on election day. While we would like to believe that we have an informed electorate, we do not. Time after time, I approached voters who had no idea who was even running for school board and county commission. Studies show that a majority of americans cannot identify the fifty states much less identify candidates and what they stand for. Campaigning is about getting your message to voters. The Orange County Democratic Party sure did that! It really is a sad day in Orange County when you have to be registered a certain way in order to win a nonpartisan election.
More African-Americans were supporting Clinton than Obama in the beginning, but South Carolina changed that because of their negative tactics which offended many. They introduced the issue of race and it backfired on them. If African-Americans were just about voting for the black candidate, Alan Keyes would have lasted a bit longer.
Al courted the Africa-American community in 2004, but he did not follow through on any of his promises. While campaigning in 2004, he visted their churches and talked with them. After being elected, he did not. If Al would have showed the same tenacity for the African-American population's concerns, that he showed for HES, they would have voted for him.
And let's not forget that the whole, "Save HES, Attention Orange, Parents for Accountability" initiatives turned off a lot of people. That did more to marginalize Al than anything else. No one besides a small segment of the HES population had any regard for the group, blog or the tactics used by the group and blog.
sounds like the OCR party needs to step up
I know Al Hartkopf well and have known him for many years. I have been a campaign volunteer in each of his campaigns.
In 2004, Al did indeed form an alliance with african american candidates. Al stood with Keith Cook when few would. There were those who warned Al that standing with Keith would cost him votes. There were those who told Al they would not support him if he supported Keith. He did so because Keith was a good school board member - not because he is black. Al supported Ms. Delores Simpson because she was a retired teacher and an excellent board member.
In 2006, Al passed out Tony McKnight literature, along with Anne Medenblik literature. He was there all day. Note: Al was not running for election that year. Keith Cook asked Al to support Tony. Trusting in Keith's endorsement of Tony and believing that there should be an african american on the OC School Board, Al was happy to oblidge.
I still have a copy of Al's 2004 campaign brochure. I went back and looked and see no promise made and not kept. If you truly feel otherwise, let us discuss them specifically. Let us examine this: Al was the only board member continually speaking out against removing the Title 1 Sanctions and therefore the Title 1 Funds from Efland Cheeks and Central Elementary. Al believed and continues to believe that parents should have the right to transfer their children from failing schools. Al believed that failing schools should keep their Title 1 Funds. A majority of board members voted to take the money away and take the transfer options away. When Al tried to assure these children could transfer to a school of their choice, the administration tried to block adding HES to the list of transfer schools. Al stood up to them and rallied the board to include HES in the transfer list and establish the intersession catch-up classes these children needed. A lot of minority AND poor children got to go to the school of THEIR choice because Al stood up for their rights.
Wanting to understand the needs of all communities and wanting to hear from all citizens in our community, Al was both before and during his term on the board, often the only caucasian face at african american gatherings.
Prominent members of the african american community supported Al in 2004. Those same folks supported Al this year.
Anonymous 4:12 obviously has a dislike for Al rather than a desire to discuss honestly.
This election was not about race. It was about political party registration. Look at the numbers again: registration, voters by party, and census information. There are not enough african americans in our school district to lend the result claimed by Anonymous 4:12.
"It is simply untrue that "all three men are well aware of our cause"."
Umm, I strongly disagree. All three men were quite aware of our situation. If you don't believe me, then please call Eddie, Tony, or Steve. They will tell you that they were aware of the situation, and that the Board made the problem a lot harder than it needed to be.
Please, I repeat, give these men a chance!
T.D.
I do not have a dislike for Al and I have reason to lie. I just have a different opinion.
My response was to the person that assumed that blacks always vote for the black that is running.
And if you read my entire statement, I also said: "And let's not forget that the whole, "Save HES, Attention Orange, Parents for Accountability" initiatives turned off a lot of people. That did more to marginalize Al than anything else. No one besides a small segment of the HES population had any regard for the group, blog or the tactics used by the group and blog."
He supported title 1 because it helped his argument for not merging HES and CES and then the later argument for saying that they should not chage the demographics of HES. Not because it helped blacks. And I heard a different version of how he helped other candidates.
"And let's not forget that the whole, "Save HES, Attention Orange, Parents for Accountability" initiatives turned off a lot of people."
I'm really getting sick of hearing this. For fun, let's do a thought experiment. So what would happen if the BOE decided that Cameron Park was the reason that 2 other schools were not making AYP and they then decided to merge your school with one of the failing schools...what would you parents of Cameron Park or any other elementary school do? I'd like to know!! Will the good people of Churton Grove welcome a merger of Cameron Park and Central? Would you really? Or perhaps you would see that a merger would help no one and you'd organize to oppose the board's plan.
To all the people irratated by the organized efforts of HES parents, get off your pedastal. I personally hope you are the next target of the BOE. Ted has stated that the BOE has the authority to assign any child to any school at any time for any reason. Perhaps your child will be the next kid to be "transferred" to another school against your wishes. Then we'll see if you meekly accept that or if you fight for your kids and what you believe to be right.
Whether or not this group's actions were justified do not even factor into my argument. In fact, I'm not irritated by Attention Orange/Save HES. I'm just stating the facts. A lot of people were turned off by this group/blog and it had a negative impact on Al's re-election bid.
"sounds like the OCR party needs to step up"
I disagree. Regardless of which party is doing it, I would be just as concerned about turning non-partisan races into partisan contests.
Allowing parties to seize control of these races leaves out every Independent or Unaffiliated candidate.
anonymous at 9:50 said
I do not have a dislike for Al and I have reason to lie.
Thanks for telling the truth that "I have reason to lie". I don't know what that reason is, but you also seem perfectly comfortable trafficking in lies and half-truths as in "I heard a different version of how he helped other candidates." Never mind what you HEARD from who knows who. Had you gotten off your rumor-mongering butt you would have SEEN HIM and his friends passing out literature for Delores Simpson, Keith Cook, Tony McKnight, and Brian Lowen ALL DAY in three different elections. Personally I think Al is naive. I think he really believes what Dr. King said about judging people by their character and not the color of their skin. If it is as you say and the african americans slammed Al, then it is they who are wrong for taking his help then turning their back on him. I hope he wises up by next time.
Yeah, I HEARD the same things you have, but they conflict with what I SAW so all I know is that that the people spreading those rumors are liars or fools or both.
Which one are you?
Scott H.
Okay - enough......
Let's return to an issue that matters and several posters seem interested in: POLITICAL PARTIES MAKING NON-PARTISAN RACES PARTISAN.
I agree with a previous poster that I would have a problem with any political party marking a "sample ballot" (indicating which candidates belong to their party)in a non-partisan election.
Considering registration numbers by party,
I suppose in Orange County, from now on, school board candidates need to be registered Democrats (even if they are not ideologically Democrats). Having seen the result of this year's vote, I know that I could never, in good conscience, encourage one registered any other way to file for school board. There is something fundamentally wrong with this!
Al Hartkopf lost the election fair and square, and I'm sad that he lost, but I'm proud that I at least casted a vote for Al.
Wake up folks. We are painting ourselves into a corner by calling each other names because we don't agree with each other or that we are not intelligent enough to recognize another person's point of view. I think anonymous 9:50 has a different point of view that a lot of us. We may not agree with it, but we can at least respect him/her.
Remember your dolphin pride!
Jackie F.
Scott H.,
You know that was a typo. The statement should have been, "I have no reason to lie". My position is unchanged. I have nothing to gain by spreading rumors. And I did not say that they slammed Al. The Indy Weekly slammed him.
Most of what Al handed out had the names of the candidates you mentioned deleted. He was pushing to help Ann M. get elected so that he would have an ally on the board, so he was helping her to get the black vote.
He totally disrespected Ms. Carraway at one board meeting in particular and that did not sit well with anyone in the African-American community nor did it sit well with most of the women that were present. Whether you liked her or not, she did not deserve to be treated in that manner. No one does, especialy not in a public forum like a board meeting
During the last Board meeting at Stanback Al presented his plan to allow all students who had applied to HES to be accepted, regardless of the decline in the enrollment at CES. When asked how does his plan help the children at CES he did not have an answer.
So to say that Al was naive to trust blacks, it sounds like you saying that everyone should now be judged by the color of their skin. To take that further, I guess that you are saying that all African-Americans should be judged negatively and are not to be trusted. So I guess as a white man, I should be judged negatively based upon the historical mistreatment of Native Americans in this country.
You are just upset because Al did not get in. You can hurl insults all you want, but it does not change a thing, especially not my point of view.
Anonymous at 2:08 said:
it sounds like you saying that everyone should now be judged by the color of their skin.
Actually, you said that when you said, "It is tough to overcome the Orange County NAACP / Northern Orange County African American Caucus voting bloc." That statement said volumes about who you think votes for whom and carries with it an explicit and inextricable conclusion: African-Americans vote for African-Americans, they vote as a bloc, and they are monocultural. What a myopic view of the intricacies of African Americans in Orange County.
Again you come with allegations of literature distribution that fly in the face of what I saw. I saw Al passing out literature with the names I stated on it. None crossed out, none erased, just the names I stated. I didn't hear about it. I saw it for myself. I don't know what you are trying to prove. I have heard a particular loudmouth from Efland try to spread these lies before and twist this around in an effort to drive a wedge between black people and a candidate that cares about them. He was discredited as a liar then and he still is.
Yeah, Al went after Carraway. Given that this whole thing was started by her, I'm glad he went after her and exposed her for what she was and showed the County what she was trying to do. The fact that she was black or a woman should not matter. She was wrong to go after children and disrupt their education to prop up her career and get the schools out of Title 1 restrictions in such a deceitful and unethical way. It was wrong and it would be wrong no matter who did it. Why must you inject race or sex into this when it so obvious, at least to anyone fully informed, that is about neither.
I'm not going to hash this around any more. I know history. I will remember my Dolphin Pride. But Dolphins respect the truth and will not tolerate a lie. If you want the last word, have it, but stop trying to use lies and innuendo to divide our county along racial lines. You do no one any service. And yes, I am disappointed Al lost and I will do all I can to encourage him, Anne, and anyone else who can conduct themselves as well as they have to run again in 2010.
Oh, the Independent Weekly. They called it right. Al is responsive to the people and yes, Al did come down on the side of the people. Ummm, they elected him to represent them, not acquiesce to the majority of the board or the administration. The Indy didn't endorse him 4 years ago and he won then so again I think the loss was as the earlier poster (anon 6:15 5/7) said.
I know I can't change your mind. You've closed it. Like parachutes, minds don't work well when closed. Happy landing!
Scott H.
Scott H.,
There are several opinions on this topic and I did not make all of them. Some comments were mine and some were not (May 7, 2008 10:25 PM for example was not mine and it was not me who stated "It is tough to overcome the Orange County NAACP / Northern Orange County African American Caucus voting bloc." My first response was actually in disagreement of that statement). Just call me Homer for future replies.
You stated your position and I stated mine. The point concerning Carraway was that Al literally screamed at her like he was her daddy. African-Americans and women were disturbed by that. Some people did not like it. It was wrong of him to treat her in that manner, publically or privately. There is thing called, "respectfully disagreeing".
I guess you are referring to Keith Cook, because you called the person a liar, which means that you are probably referencing the whole plagiarized speech thing. I did not get my information from him. And he is not trying to place a wedge between anybody. We can agree to disagree on that one.
My mind is not closed. I have nothing to gain from lying. There are two sides to every story. And my opinion is just that, my opinion, and it carries just as much weight as yours. I wish you well at HES.
Homer
Homer,
Just for clarification, I did not mean Keith Cook. He does not live in Efland. This guy is white. You took the racial route again. Very telling.
Scott H.
Scott H.,
You are getting way too cerebral. I guessed the wrong person because I thought the term liar was a reference to Keith Cook.
Homer
"So what would happen if the BOE decided that Cameron Park was the reason that 2 other schools were not making AYP and they then decided to merge your school with one of the failing schools...what would you parents of Cameron Park or any other elementary school do? I'd like to know!! Will the good people of Churton Grove welcome a merger of Cameron Park and Central? Would you really? Or perhaps you would see that a merger would help no one and you'd organize to oppose the board's plan."
doubt you'll get an answer to this.
The question should be why is the enrollment of CES declining? Wouldn't that help the teacher-student ratio & improve scores?
"The question should be why is the enrollment of CES declining? Wouldn't that help the teacher-student ratio & improve scores?"
This is a valid question. A decrease in student enrollment would lower teacher-student ratio IF there wasn't a decrease in the number of teachers. The current plan actually INCREASES the teacher-student ratio because it eliminates at least 3 teaching positions.
From what I've been told, the teachers and administrators involved with CES believes that the ratio is currently TOO LOW.
So let me pose this question: What is the ideal student-teacher ratio at CES under the current situation?
Currently at CES, there is a 10:1 ratio, in first grade.
Is that ratio counting an assistant?
I don't believe it's counting an assistant. I've heard of classes that have only 11-13 students. From what has been told to me, CES teachers and administrators believe that the numbers of students per classroom should increase.
I think classroom size at CES should not be over 16 students at this point of time.
More students per class at CES? I wonder why that would be wanted. Is it because teacher's have too much time to spend with each child or is it because CES administrators and teachers worry that as the number of students declines, the possibility of closing the school increases. A teacher at a Title I school in Alamance told me a 10:1 student to teacher ratio would be ideal in his opinion and that "some real teaching could go on." So I wonder if a desire for increased class size at CES has nothing to do with student achievement and everything to do with school politics.
Nice that they're aiming for 16:1 which, FYI, is what HES is at (roughly) right now. How about the plan to increase that to 25:1 next year? How much teaching do you think will happen then?
If the ratio is 11-13 kids per class in a school with great teachers and the school is still failing, what does that tell you?
Look at the stats, there are more teachers with advanced degrees at CES than at HES- or any other school in the district. Children from lower socio-economic families are likely not to learn at the same pace as children who are not. That has been statistically proven over and over again. The question that needs to be answered is WHY?
Is it a lack of parental involvement- b/c most are from single family homes? Is it b/c they lack the funds needed to ensure learning? Is it about nutrition?
"If the ratio is 11-13 kids per class in a school with great teachers and the school is still failing, what does that tell you?"
FYI--the ratio for the 2007-08 school year decreased at CES to this level. We need to be careful not to judge CES this year since they have implemented some "improvements" to the school. Let's wait until July (when CES gets their scores back) to critique the school's performance. I'm not sure if we will see much improvement, but for argument sake, let's wait until we are able to analyze their grades.
I couldn't imagine the pressure the CES students and teachers are facing each day. I hope the school shows dramatic improvement.
"If the ratio is 11-13 kids per class in a school with great teachers and the school is still failing, what does that tell you?
May 15, 2008 9:07 PM"
If what you are trying to insinuate is found to be true, then that is a sad and disturbing situation, not something to be smug about.
I think the CES parents need to be ACCOUNTABLE for their children's scores. Unless they are willing to stand up and be ACCOUNTABLE, I don't want to hear anything about my tone or anyone else's tone. After what the HES families went thru for over a year, we are rightfully justified to make such remarks. I want these kids to pass more than you can imagine! I am willing to go on a line and say that the problem lies within certain families at CES.
Understand?
It is so easy to make generalizations about a school and the families that constitue a school, when you might know so very little about the situation. It is also very flippant to say "parents need to be accountable." First of all, let's get one thing straight. CES is not a failing school. You can verify this information with the Department of Public Instruction. In 2007 Central's students met their adequate yearly proficiency goals in reading. The district had placed more reading specialists per capita at this school than any other school, and it was effective. More focus could have been placed on math. Three subgroups did not meet AYP in math: all students, black and economically disadvantaged. The same student might be categorized in all 3 of these subgroups, so it could be a number as small as 30 members of the entire school's population that placed this school in Title 1 improvement, which resulted in transfers out of the school. Even though it's a low number, these students need and deserve assistance. Based on reports from the superintendent, you can guarantee these math students receive an immense amount of targeted assistance in math this year. No Child Left Behind unfairly labels an entire school as "failing" when certain subgroups do not meet adequate yearly progress. It is also unfair to place the blame on the parents when you have not walked in their shoes. You do not know the student placed with her third foster family in less than a year. You do not know the 11 year old who also happens to be the primary caregiver to his elderly grandparents and guardians. You do not know the single parent who works double shifts as a waitress to pay the rent, and is too exhausted to read to her child. You do not know the parent of the child born to a 7th grader. Five years later, the parent is a teenager in high school while her child has entered elementary school. One couple would stand up and be accountable for their children, but they happen to be behind bars until someone can post bail. These are not necessarily CES scenarios, but are situations encountered by school social workers. You might be accountable for your children, but in the real world there are parents who are not. It is easy to cast aspersions when another's situation does not match your reality. As one wise sage in our community always proclaimed, be kind and sympathetic. It takes no more effort to be kind than to be judgmental or insensitive. We may never know the burdens others might be facing.
"As one wise sage in our community always proclaimed, be kind and sympathetic."
I totally agree with this statement, especially when dealing with children. We need to reach out to the disadvantaged as opposed to separating ourselves from them.
I also understand the point "get real" makes. Everyone should be accountable. I don't believe we should make excuses for the simple fact that CES was labeled a "failing" school by NCLB. "Failing" is a poor adjective for CES, but I'm not too caught up on that word. The school board was right in wanting to improve CES, but was wrong in their attempts to dismantle HES. After the HES-CES merger debacle that was the result of Dennis and Liz's poor leadership, HES parents have a vested interest in the welfare of CES.
I think the makeup of the new school board will be a benefit to both HES and CES. Dr. H has a great head on his shoulders. Eddie Eubanks is a tireless worker who is also a reasonable man. Tony McKnight will bring a new perspective to the Board. Ted T., who may lack tact, is a bright person who believes in acting proactively. Susan, Debbie, and Ann are intelligent individuals who will help bring a consensus to the Board.
The shining star has to be Patrick Rhodes. Mr. Rhodes is a practical person who knows that any decision made by the Board may have a negative reaction by the community. He is so much better than Dr. Carraway, who was more interested in stereotyping HES as an elitist school. She is gone, Dennis is gone, and Liz will be gone at the end of June.
We have 7th graders having children, criminals having children, those who can't afford them having children, and those who don't want them to begin with having children. Is that what you are saying anonymous 5/20?
I'm saying that the parents of these children need to be held accountable. Nothing more, nothing less.
Concerning your note of 7th graders having children, CES is a K-5th grade school, so I don't believe that is an issue. Criminals having children is an issue, but I don't believe that CES is more or less aflicted than any other school in the district. Why are you offering excuses for CES? The school did not make AYP for 2 years, and because of this, HES was dragged through the mud.
We can make excuses all day for CES, but that's not the solution. If you remember, the excuse that Liz and Dennis offered was that HES was the reason why CES did not make AYP. This is why I'm sick and tired of hearing excuses on why CES did not make AYP.
"We have 7th graders having children, criminals having children, those who can't afford them having children, and those who don't want them to begin with having children. Is that what you are saying anonymous 5/20?"
I'm not anonymous 5/20, but I take offense to your characterization of CES! You act like students at CES is doomed! Do you not understand that we need people to hold us accountable? We may not live in the enchanted estates, but we are not scared to be held accountable for our childs success!
Who is characterizing CES??!! I believe whoever pointed out the scenarios specifically stated they were not necessarily those of CES, but encountered by school social workers. There are failing kids in every school, including HES, many (not all) of whom are failing for the very reasons that 5/20 pointed out....kids having kids, criminal parents in prison, can't afford them etc. The schools aren't failing the kids, their guardians and parents often are though. Take off the blinders or open your eyes. To ignore this isn't going to do the children any good. It's a crying shame that the innocent children have to suffer often due to the negative actions of those responsible for them.
I believe Dr. H said when he gave a child a diploma, he was not only giving it to that child, but to their parents. I don't remember his exact quote, but it sure rang true.
CJ
"We have 7th graders having children, criminals having children, those who can't afford them having children, and those who don't want them to begin with having children. Is that what you are saying anonymous 5/20?"
What does that have to do with a K-5 school? Are you inferring that we are supposed to "write-off" these children because a few parents may be criminals? What kind of message does this send to our children? I'm a very compassionate person, but I also believe that having no parental accountability is cruel to the children, it's cruel to the teachers, and it's cruel to our society.
Bill B.
CJ- I agree with you!!!!! Parents should be held accountable for their children. Our children are a refelction of us, as parents. You all know that.
To Bill B; You know that they were not saying to write those children off- you are trying to make more out of it than it truly is.
CJ,
Every school has problems. It's what the schools do with their problems that will determine the success of their children. Making excuses doesn't solve problems. Actually, there is a self-fulfilling prophecy pertaining to excuses: if you tell someone a child will not succeed because of his/her environment, it will eventually get back to the child in some manner, and the kid will lose interest.
Instead, plant a tree. Accept nothing less than success. Do not accept that a child will not pass a test; instead, demand excellence. Not having high expectations for our children is cruel.
I am not making excuses, but many here are. If you go back and read the long recent post, you will see some of them. People are making excuses for parental responsibility.....working two jobs, in prison, had a kid in 7th grade, etc. Don't those sound like excuses to you? I had my children knowing full well this was going to be a HUGE responsibility that I prepared myself for. Sadly, not everybody thinks that way, and the children suffer. Don't take my post the wrong way, I am NOT saying kids with parents that are working two jobs, in prison, etc. cannot succeed, nor would I EVER tell a child that, but success has to have it's roots at home, no matter what socioeconomic status or race you are. Like I said, we have kids everywhere failing. I am sure there are many children from rich families in Chapel Hill failing also. Perhaps their excuse might be they are working two jobs to buy their next BMW? Failure is a problem in all our schools. No more excuses.
Is it true that the Board is considering to close CES in 3 years and send these kids to Cameron Park? I've heard this from a couple of people, and I don't believe it...except that the current Board is known for making impulsive decisons.
I guess since Cameron Park is now the premier school in Orange County the Board believes they should knock them down from their pedestal.
Shame on all schools that are performing well!
There is no way that the BOE will close Central Elementary. When Liz Brown was advocating for HES to be closed, the other board members stated that it is not a viable option due to the growth in the community. They said that the county commissioners would not approve closing one school and then having to open a new school in a couple of years due to overcrowding.
Besides, Cameron Park could not hold another 250 students.
What will happen is that there will be a mass redistricting in the next year (possibly two) and many of the Cameron Park and Pathways families will be redistricted to Central Elementary without a transfer option. It is truly the only thing they can do to relieve this imbalance of population sizes in the elementary schools.
Most of the Cameron Park community were laughing when the HES parents spoke against the CES merger. Now it looks like the shoe may be on the other foot.
Can you imagine how loud the Cameron Park people will be crying foul! I'm sure that during the redistricting some of the more afluent neighborhoods will be targeted for this redistricting.
I wonder if the Cameron Park people will now be called elitists?
Having the CPES children redistricted because they live in these affluent neighborhoods would be a bad decision on part of the School Board. They would be punishing these kids for no reason at all.
The HES issue is different. HES suffered from a lack of diversity. Time will tell if the current plan succeeds in achieving socio-economic diversity. CPES does not have this dilemma for the school is reasonably balanced.
Cameron park is reasonably balanced as far as diversity, but it is also at capacity. Their resources are being tapped out. Central is under capacity. There is an imbalance in population numbers between the two schools. Redistricting is the only answer to this problem. The BOE is more likely to redistrict high SES students to Central. They certainly wouldn't send more low SES students to Central.
The BOE is more likely to redistrict high SES students to Central. They certainly wouldn't send more low SES students to Central."
The Board knows that they can't force the high SES students to CES because the parents have the means to send their children to private school. The only thing that the Board would accomplish by targeting the more affluent neighborhoods would be the decrease of students in Orange County Schools. Also, these more affluent neighborhoods pay more for their child's education via property taxes, and the Board would not want to bite off the hand that feeds them.
The Board should look at other alternatives such as making CES a magnet school as opposed to forcing people who make too much money into a school they don't desire.
"The Board knows that they can't force the high SES students to CES because the parents have the means to send their children to private school. The only thing that the Board would accomplish by targeting the more affluent neighborhoods would be the decrease of students in Orange County Schools."
Really? That is exactly what they tried to do with HES and, make no mistake, they have partially succeeded. By restricting the number of students who can enter HES from CES and ECES districts, the board is trying to force the higher SES cohort into those schools. They are also supposed to stop allowing transfers to other schools from the CES district. I think it is naive to believe that the board would not create a satellite district in Churton Grove and send those kids to CES. Just take a look at the previous elementary district map. It contained plenty of such minidistricts.
Perhaps this new board will be more thoughtful, perhaps not. Lots of people suggested the board create a school that parents want to send their kids to and higher SES parents would line up. Instead, the board chose merger. Time will tell what happens next, but I am not hopeful.
The HES-CES merger is a different issue than a potential redistricting. The Board was trying to change the socio-economic balance of two schools that were not at all reasonably balanced. The high SES families have more options on how to handle such a merger, such as removing their child from the school and placing him/her into their districted school. Also, the high SES families have the means to put their child into a private school. Since the merger did not happen, this becomes a moot point.
As far as the students who will not be accepted into HES because of the new dynamics of accepting children to the school, the high SES parents again have the luxury to place their child into a private school.
The Board knows that targeting a more affluent neighborhood would have dangerous consequences, such as lower enrollment into Orange County Schools because many families would simply move or send their child to a private school. The Board's best option is to make CES a more attractive school by making it a magnet school. It can happen, and that's what I'd like to see be pushed. I don't believe that targeting high SES children to balance the school out makes much sense.
The other issue--Cameron Park is overcrowded, is an issue that needs to be examined. There are many kids that have been given transfers to the school that are in jeopardy right now. I don't believe it's fair for these kids to be targeted either. I think going forward the Board needs to adhere to a strict transfer policy regarding new potential transfers and, at the same time, grandfather the current transfers.
"Having the CPES children redistricted because they live in these affluent neighborhoods would be a bad decision on part of the School Board. They would be punishing these kids for no reason at all."
why would it be a "punishment" to have to go to CES?
why would it be a "punishment" to have to go to CES?
You can look around--there are few parents outside of CES that could honestly say that they want to have their child attend CES. The school did not make AYP for 2 years running. Look at the number of children attending CES over the last 5 years and you will notice a drop of attendance. Ask the teachers--they will tell you that having the stigma of "failing" labeled by NCLB has worsen morale.
I would consider it a "punishment" to be tear a child away from a familiar school with familiar people for no good reason - regardless of where they were being sent.
Do I consider be re-districted to CES punishment? Yes, I do!
I have zero confidence in that school. The reason why I have zero confidence is mostly related to the actions (or better yet, inactions) of our current school board. CES has some major issues, and it's time for the rubber to meat the road. Either improve the school, or eliminate it.
My child will never be allowed to attend CES. To be forced to go to a failing school is punishment, no matter how you spin it.
"My child will never be allowed to attend CES."
OUch! That sounds bad. The truth of the matter is, I can say that this statement is mean, but most of us agree that we don't want our child to attend CES.
What are your thoughts on CES Principal, Sheila McDonald, moving to a central office job?
While you can sit here on this message board and say that your child won't attend CES is an understatement. Unless your child is in the fifth grade at HES, there is a chance that you WILL attend CES or a combination of CES and HES on the HES campus.
The election shows that the parents of HES students don't have any political pull and that your cause outside of the HES community went unnoticed. If you truly don't want your child to attend with a mixed CES/HES campus, you better start looking for alternative means because the board is not going to let this rest. Look at Wake County- they lost their law suit and the board knows that you will too.
Yes, CES, under NCLB is labeled a failing school and the board is not going to let that continue nor should they. ECES shouldn’t either. By whatever means possible I feel that the current school board will see to it that at least CES comes out of this.
You can be naive enough to think that you will stop them if you want to, but I think you are sadly mistaken by this. The best thing you can do if you truly will not let this happen is to find alternative means for your child. There are options; your districted school, private school, or a charter school.
By the way, why do Jeff and Al still have their signs up everywhere?
Shelia McDonald is moving to the central office because "she can't do her job". That's what happens in government jobs for people who aren't performing- they move them somewhere else instead of firing them. Seriously. Her next step is out of the door.
Sheila McDonald will no longer be in a position that requires leadership. CES needs some fresh leadership, hopefully in the mold of Ms. Horner.
"Unless your child is in the fifth grade at HES, there is a chance that you WILL attend CES or a combination of CES and HES on the HES campus. "
My child will never be allowed to grace the doors of CES until the school is reformed. This school has been in desperate need of leadership that Sheila was unable to provide. Sheila was too proud to allow anyone to help CES, and therefore CES was stuck like a car in mud, just spinning its wheels. The good thing is that she's no longer in the picture, but instead behind a desk in Central Office.
BTW, the Superintendent, Mr. Rhodes, allows his high ethical standards to prevent any experiments by the School Board. The Board has been asleep behind the wheels while Dr. Carraway caused her havoc. At the same time, the 2 leaders of the merger, Whitling and Brown, are no longer players. Brown knew better than to run again, and Whitling's reputation as an outstanding citizen is gone forever.
As far as our lack of political clout, you are the naive one. Brown and Whitling are gone!! That's was the major focus of our people. While Hartkopf is gone, Halkiotis is here for us. McKnight and Eubanks are steady improvements over Brown and Whitling.
"As far as our lack of political clout, you are the naive one. Brown and Whitling are gone!! That's was the major focus of our people."
You or anybody else at HES had nothing to do with the reason Whitling is gone. It was his own doing that he is gone. You can't take credit for that! Brown is gone b/c she knew that she had stepped on too many toes not just that of HES, to even be elected back into office.
Halkiotis is not in b/c of the HES population, he is in b/c he deserves to be in. He has been a very strong political figure in this county for many years and deserves to be where he is.
Ask the HES population if they visit this site often. I guarantee that most will say no. They either don’t want to know what is going on with this whole debacle or they think they are immune, just like you do. I am here b/c I don’t want to see HES dismantled. I believe in this site, but I don’t believe that the HES population is the deciding vote in Orange County! You call me naive- I call it being realistic! I do however, agree to disagree with you!
"You or anybody else at HES had nothing to do with the reason Whitling is gone. It was his own doing that he is gone. You can't take credit for that! Brown is gone b/c she knew that she had stepped on too many toes not just that of HES, to even be elected back into office"
You've got to be kidding. Whitling and Brown basically told the Orange County community that they could care less if they are following the law as it relates to HES and CES. This blog exposed both of them to everyone for the frauds that they are. They deserve each other--one has been accused of lying, and the other accused of stealing.
"Ask the HES population if they visit this site often. I guarantee that most will say no."
Who cares? Why don't you survey the parents yourself and come up with your own conclusions. It would prove NOTHING.
Bottom line--the Board WILL NOT ever force my child or any current HES child to ever attend CES. Try to spin that one!
You are a lost cause... just because I don't agree with you does not make me wrong or make you right.
You, my friend, are seriously flawed. You really think you had something to do with Whitling- keep on thinking that!
"you better start looking for alternative means because the board is not going to let this rest."
What is the board going to do, try ot kick out current HES students again? How about improve CES so parents want their kids to go there instead of trying to tear down HES.
As far as the election goes, a lot of people came out to vote for Obama & voted for school board candidates without knowing anything of their positions/background.
"You, my friend, are seriously flawed."
You are not my friend. You don't know anything about me. I never told you that you were wrong. "Spinning" words around just doesn't work.
BTW, there is not chance at all that my child or any other child at HES will be forced to move into CES. This merger was a joke created by two serious flawed individuals that have serious ethical lapses. The current Board is not dumb--they know better than to try this shenanigan again.
anonymous 8:39:
Are you E? Are you Liz Brown? I find it amazing that you:
(1) would try to insult and discredit anybody that disagees with you.
(2) would act with a heavy hand by making veiled threats about the power of the Board.
Go ahead and deny that you are either (or the same person).
Instead, plant a tree and learn to live as a society member instead of a social deviant.
Jackie F
I would NEVER allow my child to grace the steps of CES. We are called elitists becuase of this, but I call it not accepting mediocrity.
The Board had their eyes off the road and tried to dismantle HES because of the 3 amigos of Carraway, Whitling, and Brown. Carraway "ran away", Whitling is indicted, and Brown is in the background telling everyone that HES parents are racists. They are all gone now because they were actually shown for their selfish ways.
CES needs to show some major improvement before I'd consider to allow my children to attend that school. I don't like the stigma of a "failing" school that CES has. The parents at CES had a golden opportunity to escape CES for good last year when they could "opt out". Unfortunately, the Board is showing retribution towards these families by not paying for transporting these kids to their opt-out schools as what is required when a school is marked in Improvement status.
I don't believe the Board will ever again consider merging CES and HES. Having a child removed from one school to another is punishment, and the Board doesn't want the negative exposure it received last time.
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