I am betting just about everyone can guess what I think it means.
[Update: I guess someone at Orange County Schools reads my blog, because a notice of the meeting appeared on the OCS website Friday morning.]
But, here is the information I received from a member of the group about the first Merger Task Force Meeting.
What: Orange County Board of Education's Merger Task Force Meeting
When: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 from 6:00-8:00 pm
Where: Orange County Board of Education Meeting Room
200 E. King Street
Hillsborough, NC
The agenda for this meeting includes:
- Developing a calendar for other meetings of the Merger Task Force
- Reviewing the Board of Education's charge for the Merger Task Force
- Examining longitudinal data related to the Merger Task Force's charge
As an advisory body to the Board of Education, the Merger Task Force's meetings should be open to the public under North Carolina's Open Meetings laws.
As such, the public has every right to attend all meetings of this group, and observe its discussions.
I plan to attend next Tuesday, and I encourage every HES and CES parent to join me.
Will you be there?
53 comments:
I would not encourage anyone to go to this meeting unless they like to waste time. This Board does not have a good reputation for listening to others.
At the same time, they have completely ignored Efland Cheeks. I guess the Board believes the Efland Cheeks children can wait.
Please note that anyone that disrupts the task force or creates a hostile environment will be thrown out of the office. The behavior that has been presented at previous board meetings have been an insult to the School Board. The parents at HES owes the Central Office an apology!
Uh...excuse me? Why do 'HES parents owe Central Office an apology'????
We are not the ones who have completely disrupted both schools b/c of a racial imbalance created by the BOE's redistricting effort. We aren't the ones who voted to merge two schools because of their proximity to each other - without a detailed plan in place. The BOE has gone about solving the problems in the wrong manner. They have not based decisions on research, they have not kept parents informed, they have been very condescending to all parents of the county. They have completely ignored Efland Cheeks.
Ted's comment re: the browning of America is what warrants an apology. That was OFFENSIVE. Just about everything that comes out of Liz Brown's mouth warrants an apology - especially her public comments on scores not mattering to her at all - duh!
The parents aren't the ones who lied about the initial problem (RACE) and then continued to back peddle b/c tracking race has been struck down by the Supreme Court.
The BOE is supposed to answer to the parents. That is their charge and yet they continue to treat the parents poorly - the listening session was way too late in the game.
Dennis' little diatribe about "Rest assured, things will change" should be the first thing to get an apology. How dare he talk to parents that way.
You think a little pressure on the board members should be apologized for? Think again. It won't come from me. I'm still livid over this mess and how it was handled - or not handled.
I am an HES parent and I have done nothing that I need to apologize for. This has been a perfect model for how to divide two communities and how to get every parent involved really ticked off.
It didn't have to be this combative. The Board set the tone by having us find out the merger via The Daily Tar Heel. THAT is another thing they can apologize for.
I'm all ears!
To anonymous October 29, 2007 7:21 PM:
It's common knowledge that the HES parents have acted in poor taste during this process. You can't act heavy handed and expect the Board to coward down.
You should study history. Ever heard of Brown vs Board of Education? A large majority of people were against this too. Please do not be scared to change. While I appreciate your candor, and I can tell you care about your children, the Board is responsible for ALL of the children attending Orange County Schools.
Please remember that the "school board" and "central office" are two different groups of people. Being rude to "central office" staff is unacceptable. Most of the "central office" staff does not make the policy - they are there doing their jobs. "School Board" members are the ones who made the mess. Don't shoot the messengers!
Yes, exactly the BOD is responsible for the education of all the children. And that being factual, why is it that no action plan is in place to assist Efland Cheeks? Is it because they don't have a FRL problem? A failing school sure isn't as sensational as a failing "black" school with in eyesight of an achieving "white" school. Could the media be a play here??? While the BOD is responsible for the education of the children in the system, they are also accountable to the parents of those children as the taxpaying citizens who elected them. It's called democracy when those who are elected are taken to task for their actions. You and others are so self righteous in your criticism of the HES parents should understand that it's their right to question the acts of this governing body. It's about accountability, the parents to the children and the schools, the teachers to the children and the schools, the administrators to the teachers, children and parents and finally, the board to anybody and everybody. I have seen the board accept little responsibility for the current situation and even less collaboration with the other stakeholders in creating a workable solution that has some probable degree of success. While many other tax payers of this county may sit back and let an unaccountable school board railroad a plan that is certain to fail and does not serve the needs of the teachers, children, or parents at either school, I am not. I applaud the parents at BOTH schools for challenging the board to develop a collaborate process, that seeks buy in from all the vested parties.
As for your comment about Brown vs BOE, that is an attempt on your part to fan the flames of what has been incorrectly portrayed as an issue of race. Shame on you for using such a tactic in an attempt to get the parents to cower. This is not an issue of desegregation, HES and CES are already desegregated. As for change, I don't see where either school is unwilling to embrace a change that serves the good of both schools. It's simply that the board has not spent the time to develop a successful plan. I am so tired of both sets of parents being villifed in this process. They are all loving parents, taxpayers who are using their democratic rights to challenge the boards decisions. And that is exactly how it's supposed to happen.
To the writer of “Please note that anyone that disrupts the task force or creates a hostile environment will be thrown out of the office. The behavior that has been presented at previous board meetings have been an insult to the School Board. The parents at HES owe the Central Office an apology!”
Can it be that you were lucky enough to be chosen for the task force? With the forceful threat in your statement, you are certainly taking on a role that we parents do not feel – the need to be violent toward one another. We have not stormed into meetings or even disrupted the board proceedings. If you had been present at the meetings, you would have seen parents from both schools quietly listening and taking notes without even speaking unless it was during the 3 minutes they give for public comment. Outside the meetings, the parents have been searching for the research that supports the merger – only to discover that is doesn’t exist (we couldn’t find and the board could not give one example of where a split campus improved the academics of the students). Could it be that you have been lead down a path to believe that the community is at war and that HES parents are rude and heavy handed political animals? It isn’t so. Ask the board members – they may not like or appreciate the parent’s opinions (both schools) during the 3 minutes of speaking or via separate emails, but their board proceedings and task force meetings have not been disrupted at all…unless our presence is the behavior that you reference in your statement. No apology from the parents of either school is required since there have been no insults at the board meetings/task force meetings that I’ve attended since last March.
As for the listening sessions, I believe parents may have been a bit rude with their sighs and applause since that was against the rules of the evenings, but it appeared the sessions were worth while. It appears that the board learned that a merger was not acceptable for either school unless they could provide a detailed plan of how it would work and what the benefits would be. I don’t think that was heavy handed or initiated by the HES parents, since it was established as a session for the board to hear what both communities were thinking. I believe a political activitist would have tried different tactics to be heard rather than listening and waiting to be asked by the board.
Behaviors that would have been an insult would have been picketing, posting signs all over the county and violence such as you have proposed in your statement (physically removing people, blocking them from attending a vote, etc…). A hostile environment implies that someone is afraid for their personal safety or well being….I have not seen or felt this. Are you afraid to be on the task force? Don’t be. We only want what is best for both schools AND FOR THE DISTRICT. Participate without fear! But we are present and listening for the sake of ALL the children.
To anonymous October 30, 2007 7:25 AM:
FYI--most of the School Board meetings are at Central Office! Guess who also goes to these meetings? Central Office staff!
Conclusion: Maybe the Central Office and the School Board are not totally separate.
However, this is not the issue. It's time for everyone to rise to the reason why we have Orange County Schools: are precious children. I do not fault you and your gang for throwing endless insults at the Board or try to make it only a CES problem. CES and the other schools around would be more successful too if they had the same parameters as HES. This merger is about leveling the playing field. Kindness to others will build stronger relationships. Unless you are willing to extend your hand, this opportunity may never happen.
IF CES was a highly successful school, the HES parents would not be putting up a fight. Helping others is a good thing. Helping children is a wonderful thing.
How have HES parents acted in "poor taste" at meetings? I am hearing this over and over, but no one has given any examples. What exactly have the HES parents done that is so offensive? I don't recall anyone yelling or screaming at the BOE except a mother of a H.S. student about something that pertained to last year.
Anyway, I would like to know of some examples.
Also, why do some people put the BOE up on a pedestal? I see them as "public servants" who chose to do this difficult job, but it isn't like they've been elected to the U.S. Senate or the Supreme Court. It's not like they are being accosted at the meetings, but neither should they be so revered.
I don't get it.
To the poster who said that kindness would help. I get what you are saying, but HES has asked repeatedly what CES parents need and there is never an answer.
I know it is complicated, but Central needs to express what their needs are. There was a long blog exchange last month about whether they need school supplies or tutoring or money. The parents who responded were offended b/c it seemed like a handout I guess. HES parents simply have not been given any clear cut ideas or opportunities to help CES.
We are fiercely defending our schedule b/c if a merger took place, the year round would end (see previous notes about Judge Manning in Wake Co.) The ball is in CES' court to some extent - what do they need to continue on this upward spiral? There has to be something, but gestures of volunteering - that I know of personally - have been rejected by the principal.
So, we want our schedule and CES needs help, but no one knows how to help them. We need a plan - fast. I would hate to be on the Task Force - there isn't an easy answer, but CES could make it a little more clear by posting some ideas of what would help them.
"the Board is responsible for ALL of the children attending Orange County Schools."
Then why aren't they doing anything for Efland-Cheeks? It has a high Free/Reduced lunch percentage, yet not a word from our caring school board.
Stop feeding the trolls.
A perfect example of the poor behavior is after the open session of the Board meeting has ended. The HES parents congregate in a large group and are somewhat less than flattering towards the Board members. Also, they try to lure the few CES parents in the group, telling them to come to HES because its the better school.
This is not high school
To Anonymous October 30, 2007 5:42 PM:
What CES needs is attention and respect. I saw the blog last month too, and I cringed at how the HES parents thought they could help. While the intent was great, the delivery was poor. You are right: it did look like some HES parents were wanting to give a handout.
If you really want to help, try to establish playdates with the CES kids. This would be a significant step.
Play dates? I wouldn't call them play dates, but the children in Orange County interact with each other outside their time at school. They aren't as segregated as some would like to think. We have Girl Scouts, Boys Scouts, baseball, soccer, football, cheerleading, basketball, 4-H, etc. etc. etc. Remember these activities are open to any child regardless of race or socioeconomic status. They are, in fact, more segregated in school because of AIG, EC, etc.
I think this blog would be a better learning and communication tool for all of the community if we would refrain from being anonymous. I see some great thoughts and ideas here and would love to respond directly to the person behind them. Just my two cents. :)
Cheri Clark
Cheri,
Thank you for your comment. I have been asking for more people to post here "non-anonymously" since I started the blog, and I too believe it would add greatly to the discussion.
In addition to the great activities you mention (scouts, sports, etc.), I think it is important to remember that HES students come from every school zone in the county, rather than one single geographic area.
That means that, while they may not attend school together, children at HES and at other schools live next door to each other and play together just as a normal course of their day.
Cheri Clark,
It is true that the activities you have listed are available to all. However, many of the kids at CES do not have the opportunity to participate, at no fault of their own. To be able to participate, you must have the means to get to and from an event. Also, some of the events, such as baseball, does cost money. Sure, there are ways for the Socio-economically disadvantaged to be helped out, but more decline to participate because of this stigma.
The HES families should really consider the plight of these children. Saying that it is not your problem is not going to help.
It may be good to look at, as some would say, "dem evildoers in Chapel Hill" and see how they incorporate all families, rich and poor, in community events. It just doesn't happen in Hillsborough. The true segregation is between the haves and the have nots.
E
If the HES parents truly want to keep the status quo, they need to lobby the Commissioners and demand they fully fund our schools. The current group don't want to raise your taxes for education, which is a big mistake. Public Education is not free!
E
E,
Are you Liz Brown?
If yes, you should have the courage to say so and publicly defend your positions and actions. I post here using my name all the time, and
If not, it is amazing that there is another person in Orange County who thinks exactly like Liz.
Someone who:
- Perceives that people who disagree with her are a "gang" or are creating a "hostile environment."
- Chants "Brown vs. Board of Education" where it doesn't apply.
- Conveniently ignores the fact that Efland-Cheeks is over 50% FRL and is also in Title 1 School Improvement.
- Patronizes HES parents by characterizing their offers of help as wanting to provide "handouts."
- Stares enviously across district lines and wishes the rubes in Orange County could more like the enlightened people in Chapel Hill.
- Falls back on the tired excuse of the County Commissioners failing to "fully fund our schools" to cover the Board's failure to address the long-running issue of falling student performance.
(And those are just from this comment string.)
My grandmother used to say, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's a duck.
I hear a lot of quacking, but can you walk the walk?
Is that you, Liz?
For those who don't know, the next task force meeting is November 13, 2007 from 5:30-7:30 at the Board of Education Room.
School Boards wants more money to throw at the problems.
We are one of the top 5 school systems in the State for local funding. How about the school system get there own financial mess cleaned up first??? I could take alot of space to list the mismanagement that has occurred and the people who are responsible are still employed. Our system is like a mini DOT.
I'd like to respond to the person who insinuated that the HES parents acted like High Schoolers when they encouraged CES parents to attend HES.
At that point, all that the HES parents heard was how unfriendly we were and how we supposedly didn't want CES children at our school. So the invitation to come to our school was not to imply that we were better, it was to sincerely let the parents of CES know that if they chose to come over to HES, that there would be absolutely no unkind actions toward the new kids.
Having said that, I'm pretty sick of the CES parents being bitter and angry at HES parents. It is like we can do no right. We invite you to come and you get mad. We offer financial assistance and we are snobby parents giving handouts. We offer to volunteer and your principal says NO THANKS!!! What the hell do you think the community is supposed to do for you? Feel free to remain at your school, not tell anyone what you need and hate us from 300 yards away. We have done nothing wrong and I'm just about done with the martyrdom of CES parents.
In fact I am done. Enjoy your school - I'm headed back to my districted school and will have nothing to do with this ridiculous battle the BOE started. They want HES gone so bad - fine with me. Just don't you dare complain about overcrowding next year or having to redistrict again after that. This fiasco is all on the BOE's tab!!!!!
Personally, I think everyone should head back to their districted school. Let the BOE close HES- they won't be satisfied until they do. You will live in constant turmoil, with many sleepless nights if you remian there because they have already said "it will not remain the way that it is".
HES is a great school! It is great because of the parents. The staff also makes it great but without the parents, the staff probably wouldn't be as enjoyable. The parents furnish alot of supplies to the classroom throughout the year. I don't know of one teacher who has not got the things that they have requested from the parents.
Let them do what they will!
nhcpddBut giving up and going back to your districted school is exactly what the BOE wants you to do. Is the year round calendar not important to you? Do you not pay taxes in Orange County that supports the school board? Do you not feel the need to have your opinions as to how your child should be educated heard? If you shut up and go away you are giving up your right to be heard. Is that the kind of example you want to set for your child? Believe me, they are all watching and talking about this, just like we are!
Fast forward ahead. Once HES is gone, what will the BOE have on the table as a solution for the CES and the other failing schools? The HES debate has been a diversion all along - a diversion that will waste a year of our children's valuable education years.
With current title 1 and the almost sure upcoming title 1 additions, the parents can move their children almost anywhere in the district. Combine that with the fact that OCS has allowed an abundance of transfers even before the title 1 status and you have an entire district of choice! With choice for all, the FRL goal is a farce that is wasting valuable time and energy.
Why won't the BOE focus on improving the academics at each school and then it won't matter where parents put their children.
WHY, BOARD, DON'T YOU FOCUS ON THE SCORES FOR OUR CHILDREN? DO YOU ALL AGREE WITH LIZ THAT SCORES DON'T MATTER?
Amen to that. I think there will come a day when the BOE realizes though that having HES behooves the district. We save money by providing our own transportation, we are big into volunteering, we front a lot of money for supplies and we prevent our districted schools from becoming over crowded.
So let's go to our districted schools and let the BOE figure out where to put everyone and how to get everyone there.
The only thing I would push for would be to have the entire district on the modified year round. That schedule is perfect. An 8 week summer and a week in October and a week in February. I'd actually stay in the district and be happy.
I wonder what will happen to HES' building. Central Office can move right in, but what a waste of money to have the school renovated only to use it as office space.
Someone suggested renting it back from the county and turning it into a Charter school. That would be nice too.
Anyhoo, I think the previous poster is correct, the BOE is determine to dismantle HES to the detriment of the whole district. Too much time/energy has been spent on this. Efland Cheeks is in trouble and New Hope is next and all that the board cares about is that HES' FRL is way too low. Talk about your misguided focus.
The BOE may say that's what they want, but when it happens they will have more than a low FRL to contend with. As stated, HES saves the BOE money.
Poster 7:22 has a very legitimate point. With transfers from CES and ECES, you can go just about anywhere- not to mention the Charter schools- Woods, Orange, and River Mill that are all in close proximity. Moving them to Charter schools moves your tax dollars too!
Poster 6:40- You too are right, about some things, tax dollars, having your opinion heard, but when in this whole process have you felt your opinion had been heard or frankly that they even cared what your opinion was? Only when CES spoke up and said we don't want this is when they backed down. The reason they had to back off was because what they were doing was ILLEGAL. It is not illegal for them to move HES to a traditional calendar and still merge. Our opinions do not matter to them- they have all but said that.
My philosophy on this is an easy one--- "be careful what you ask for because you just might get it".
Looks like CES and HES make the education section often. Even when the article is not directly about them.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/education/story/757978.html
I see HES and CES is not on the agenda for the Novemebr 5th meeting. Is that becuase they have the task force meeting on the 13th?
Mr. Scott,
Thanks for sharing your story about your grandmother. It's a good one!
While your grandmother was talking about Waterfowls, my grandmother spoke about equality. Aren't all men supposed to be created equal?
E does not represent Liz Brown, it represents Equality.
Anyway, fully funding our schools is a priority. Imagine what our children could achieve if the Commissioners would fully fund the Board's requests! I also strongly encourage the Orange County families to reach out to your neighbors from Chapel Hill. They are not having the problems that you are having. There is an open dialogue among all families that does not happen in our area.
THIS IS WHY CHAPEL HILL/CARRBORO IS SUCH A SUCCESS!! Don't you want the same success for your schools?
E
E,
In reference to your 10/31 post- There isn't an organization around (that I am aware of) that would not be willing to waive or lower a fee for a child to participate in Scouts, sports, etc.
You say we should reach out to our Chapel Hill neighbors. Well, why don't you let us all know who you are so we can approach you to discuss that. I would love to hear what they have to say. I have lived in both Chapel Hill and Carrboro have never seen this "open dialogue" between all families you speak about. Is there a reason why you want to stay anonymous? We won't get anywhere if we can't share thoughts and ideas.
Cheri
Dear E,
Chapel Hill/Carrboro does not have these problems?? I need to repost a newspaper article I posted earlier to this blog:
*Grants support research project*
BY GINNY HOYLE, The Herald-Sun
October 19, 2007 7:39 pm
CHAPEL HILL -- The Carolina Center for Public Service will use $375,000 in grants to address the achievement gap at three elementary schools in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools district.
The funding from Strowd Roses Inc. and the Triangle Community Foundation will support a three-year research project that will help identify "social environmental barriers" for students at Carrboro, Ephesus Road and Frank Porter Graham elementary schools.
Natasha Bowen, an assistant professor at UNC's School of Social Work, will follow a group of third-graders for three years during the project, which begins this month.
Social environmental barriers could include "threats in the neighborhood, school, family and peer system," Bowen said. "And we look at things like neighborhood safety, teacher support, being accepted by other children and family support."
Researchers at the School of Social Work have created a comprehensive assessment tool that identifies social environmental barriers to learning, which is called the Elementary School Success Profile. The online questionnaire with colorful graphics and brief animations examines students' beliefs about themselves, their neighborhoods, schools, families and peer groups.
The ESSP asks children to rate the accuracy of questions like, "I get picked on at school," or "When I am scared, worried or upset, I can talk to an adult at home."
"The immediate goal is to improve students' social environments, as well as psychological and physical well-being," Bowen said. "The long-term goal is to improve the academic performance of students, and reduce performance disparities based on race/ethnicity and socioeconomic status."
Carrboro, Ephesus Road and Frank Porter Graham elementary schools have the district's highest percentage of students who receive free and reduced lunches, and FPG and Carrboro are both designated Schools of Improvement under the No Child Left Behind Act, said Stephanie Knott, city schools spokesperson.
School officials will invite parents, teachers and students to take separate ESSP tests and, based on parental consent, will enroll as many third-graders as possible, Bowen said.
The project -- which stresses school, parent and community collaboration to maximize efforts and resources -- includes a collaborative decision-making process, an online database of intervention strategies, staff development workshops and other resources.
The strategies that each school might decide to implement will depend on the data it gets back, Bowen said, and the grants will offset costs of materials, training and supplies needed.
"A bullying prevention program, for example, might entail manuals and workbooks," Bowen said. "One of the things that we're going to be able to pay for is staff for after-school hours if they decide to put forward some kind of after-school program."
Jack Richman, dean of the School of Social Work, lauded the project's school-community partnership.
"One of the exciting things about this project is that it is a collaboration among the researchers at the UNC School of Social Work, educators in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro school system and resources in the community coming together to provide positive outcomes to children and families," Richman said. [end of article]
HES and Central are not the only local schools struggling with this. There are people out there with ideas, programs, and suggestions. Can we get in on this study (probably too late)? Can the Task Force contact the groups running the study to find out how something similar can be set up to examine Orange County schools? There is so much local info out there that we can use to change the situation we are facing here!
October 23, 2007 6:15 PM
The Chapel Hill/Carrboro system does have these problems!!!!!!! However, they are doing some extensive research to find answers before taking action in the schools. I think most parents against the merger simply want some compelling evidence, thorough research, and a detailed plan before the school board decides to drastically alter the way HES and Central function. If you want to use Chapel Hill/Carrboro as an example then lots do some extensive research and planning of our own before forcing a change in the 2008 school year!
"E does not represent Liz Brown, it represents Equality."
Too bad it doesn't represent Excellence, but then again, neither does Liz Brown.
I am an elementary teacher with the Orange County Schools.
Comparing Chapel Hill/Carrboro problems to Orange County Schools problems is like comparing Apples and Oranges. Chapel Hill/Carrboro is outperforming the Orange County Schools.
It's time for everyone to take a step backward and look at the history of HES. Please explain why there was an essay section on the application. Try to be as honest and straightforward with your answers.
I do not fault HES parents for wanting HES to remain status quo. However, this school has become another barrier between people of different socioeconomic status. However, I have heard a lot of HES parents talking with envy about the success of Cameron Park. At Cameron Park, people from a wide array of backgrounds aggregate with little fuss.
E
When my child first went to HES, the essay was a part of the application process. Why it was, I do not know. To me, I thought that it was a measurement of whether you completely understood the year round program.
If you want to know the true answer to that, ask the school board. Maybe they can shed the light on why it was a part of the process. It did not ask any personal questions, so to me, it was not a measurement of wealth or race. It may have been a tool to see how well the parents could write, if anything.
Cameron Park is successful and I applaud them! I look enviously at them because they are high achievers and aren't in the midst of turmoil as HES is. If you look at the survey that Mr. Scott put out to HES parents, then you will see that most chose HES because of the high scores. That certainly was the reason for my choice. The year round schedule is something that you adapt to. I now love the year round schedule and that is just a part of the reason that most stay there now. When I went to school, there was no year round school so most people probably went to HES somewhat blinded about the year round schedule, not sure if they would like it or not. I absolutely loved it and it has worked brilliantly for my child.
By the way, we aren’t all elitist, like most think. We only want what is best for our children. My districted school is a Title 1 school- being a teacher, don’t you think that every child deserves a quality education? I certainly think that EVERY child, regardless of social status or skin color deserves a quality education. I also believe that each parent in the district has the choice to attend HES, and again, for whatever reason, they chose not to. I only wish the BOE could figure out how to fix the problem that the Orange County Schools are facing and I just don’t believe that a merger is the best option.
So can someone tell me why Central Elementary isn't being considered for closing? It seems to me that it is failing, way under capacity and heavy on FRL. Why are we not dispersing those children throughout the district for collaborative learning environments and using the money saved for other programs.
Good point- I guess they are to busy trying to figure out a way to merge with HES so that they won't have to spend the money in transportation- that's the only thing I can figure out.
"So can someone tell me why Central Elementary isn't being considered for closing? It seems to me that it is failing, way under capacity and heavy on FRL."
Why close any school? Our student population will increase in the future. Instead of closing a school, we should look at improving what we have.
Well, CES is failing b/c it pulls its kids from a lower socio-economic area in the county. There is a link between Free/Reduced lunch and poor school performance. So the problem that has been identified and targeted is that CES has too many poor performing FRL kids and that they need to benefit from the "peer affect". In other words these children would score better by modeling behavior and study habits of children from middle class homes.
Research shows that if upper-middle class families are districted to poor and under performing schools, they will opt out via private, charter, home schooling or even moving. In America, we can not force upper middle class parents to attend "undesirable" schools. It is a fact that the board realizes so that is one reason that redistricting is pointless. If people don't want to attend CES, they won't.
So, my conclusion is that Central will continue to shrink and fail in a downward spiral. I'm not sure how many students it has now, but it is probably between 210 and 230. So operating a fully functioning school for that few kids seems like a poor fiscal expenditure - especially since this school is so densely populated with FRL.
So what if they closed the school for FY 08-09. Those few students who did not opt out could be put into collaborative learning situations and then there would be money saved (staff/building expenses). Now, if they put that money aside with the plan of re-opening the CES campus in FY 09-10 as something stellar with a balanced population, then the whole district would win. Having it closed only for a year would allow time for planning and money to be saved. Someone should look into grants to get the school to be desirable and well-funded.
In the FY 09-10 Waterstone, Daniel Boone and other new neighborhoods will be occupied and those classrooms will be needed, but for now we have a golden opportunity to help those children and create a gem of a school for our district.
In the meantime, HES could focus on getting up to par with its demographics and possibly be a part of whatever the new stellar school would be. Maybe a school of choice with broader appeal than a year round schedule. Think big - language immersion or something cutting edge.
I just don't see why we are all dancing around trying to make a failing school better when the cards are stacked against it.
Does anyone know what the new FRL stats are for CES?
"we can not force upper middle class parents to attend "undesirable" schools."
This statement is what is shaping public opinion about HES parents. This is a tacky, insensitive comment. What is so "undesirable" about CES? Is it that the CES parents can't afford to dress their kids in designer clothes?
"So what if they closed the school for FY 08-09. Those few students who did not opt out could be put into collaborative learning situations and then there would be money saved (staff/building expenses)."
So what happens to the teachers, aides, cafeteria workers, etc? I guess they lose their jobs, eventhough they have done a good job. Where are your morals? Or do you pick them up whenever you want, preferably Sunday morning.
E
Please do not be bitter and angry at the "210-230" kids you estimate that attend CES. They too deserve to be respected. It's obvious to me and the other people outside of the CES-HES population that the majority of HES parents are more interested in staying separate from the other families in Orange County. Stop blaming these children because they are "failures" in your eyes.
E
CES is not a failure in MY eyes. It is the BOE that has brought this whole issue to light - not the parents.
Dear E - you aren't listening.
CES is failing. B/c it is not doing well and has a high FRL, the board wants to merge it. HES parents aren't the impetus for change.
Did you read my post?? Have you not followed this issue from the beginning? We have been told that something will change - so what are the choices? There are two ways to dilute the high FRL at CES - disperse those students or import non FRL kids. The latter choice will not happen (that is researched based). Do I need to repeat that so you will get off your soap box and put your ears on.
1-The BOE has identified a problem (yes, it has morphed, but the problem is CES' demograhics).
2-The BOE wants to change CES' demographics ASAP and help those kids get up to the level that they should/could be.
3-CES has the opt out situation so even if you wanted to try, you can't make non FRL kids go there. Importing non FRL is not possible.
4-No one said it was the kids' fault. It also isn't the fault of HES parents. The fact remains that the school is shrinking and failing. The government will replace the staff if it doesn't meet AYP after a certain number of years. The problem isn't about cafeteria workers -- it is about getting these kids up to grade level.
5-Stop being so whiny and put your thinking cap on for a solution. Be objective and make suggestions. If you would attempt this, maybe some constructive ideas would come about.
You act like HES parents are the enemy. We aren't separatist at all. If a merger had taken place, it would not have resulted in the desired 38% +/- 10% FRL and the year round calendar would have been lost AND parents returning to their districted schools would have resulted in major overcrowding at the other schools.
Less bleeding heart liberal whining and more useful talk please.
I keep wanting to sing, "Round and round the mulberry bush..." We keep going around in circles on this blog. No one seems to be listening to each other.
E said...
"This statement is what is shaping public opinion about HES parents. This is a tacky, insensitive comment. What is so "undesirable" about CES? Is it that the CES parents can't afford to dress their kids in designer clothes?"
For me, as an HES parent, CES is not "undesirable" because the kids don't wear designer clothes. What a ridiculous statement meant to inflame and make HES look like a school full of elitists (yet again)... which it is NOT. (... round and round the mulberry bush...) FYI, my HES child gets most of his clothes from the local thrift shops. $2.00 for a nice pair of pants can't be beat!
I don't give a crap about how much money is in the bank accounts of the parents at our school. I haven't met a parent yet at HES who would give a crap about that. You act like we're all sitting around in our spare time talking about those horrible poor kids at CES with our noses stuck in the air. Like we applied to HES after researching the finances and racial demographics of each and every child who attends the school. How totally ridiculous!! If we cared about those things and if (by the popular opinion) HES is full of a bunch of rich elitists, why didn't we all just put our kids in private school? Can you answer that one for me? Hmmmm... could it be that maybe there's more to it than that??
What I do care about is that my child, who has very special academic needs, be put in an environment where academics are high and he can get the enrichment he deserves. He doesn't deserve to be part of an experiment to see if test scores can be raised at CES by merging schools together. Tell me how that will serve MY CHILD. Many children at HES have above grade level needs. How will putting those children with the kids at CES help anyone but the kids at CES?? Show me any single piece of evidence that says this "peer effect" helps high performing children. I can't find any. Or do we no longer care about the high performing children in our society?
And before you get on your soapbox yet again... NO, THEY ARE NOT ALL HIGH PERFORMING BECAUSE THEY COME FROM RICH FAMILIES. THEY SIMPLY COME FROM FAMILIES WHO SAW AN ACADEMIC OPPORTUNITY AT HES AND TOOK ANY STEPS NECESSARY TO PUT THEIR KIDS THERE. ALL THE KIDS AT HES ARE NOT FROM RICH HOUSEHOLDS!!
I'll say it again... CES is "undesirable" to me because it has not proven to be a school with excellent academics. The teachers there seem to be doing a great job educating the children that are in their population. They know how to serve those children and are doing it well. Why take that away from them? I heard it over and over again at the school board listening sessions. The parents at CES are happy with their kids being there. They like the teachers and the administration there. Let's look at things that have worked throughout the country or even just down the road in Durham for a solution to the issues at CES. Taking apart HES as a solution makes no sense.
The scenario I foresee if CES and HES are merged is that the teachers will have to spend a great deal of their time bringing children up to grade level. There will be no time to teach new things to my child who is three years above grade level in some areas. I don't fault the children at CES for not being at grade level or the teachers for needing to get them where they need to be. That's what they should be doing and it is time well spent. However, putting high-achieving children into that type of situation is not fair to them. What will the high-achieving children be doing while the teachers work with the lower-achieving children? The kids at the bottom of the academic achievement scale simply will take up all of a teacher's time. There's no time left for the high performers, so they simply aren't taught. They are given busy work. This doesn't make me an elitist. This makes me a realist. I'm going to naturally put my child into a school where I feel like he can get the best possible education. He is not going to get that if he is suddenly in a classroom where the teachers are spending all their time teaching kids who are below grade level.
E said...
"So what happens to the teachers, aides, cafeteria workers, etc? I guess they lose their jobs, even though they have done a good job. Where are your morals? Or do you pick them up whenever you want, preferably Sunday morning."
As for this statement, COME ON!! If they merge the schools together, folks are going to lose their jobs too. The only way no one will lose their job is for both schools to stay in tact just as they are. Or some have proposed shutting the doors at HES. A lot of folks would lose their jobs if that happened too.
What DO you want, E? This isn't a social justice issue. This is an issue about children who need a good education at BOTH SCHOOLS. Quit pulling at heartstrings and focus on the issue here. I'm sure when schools were desegregated, people lost their jobs too (which is an issue folks keep trying to infuse into this argument time and time again on this blog).
How about giving a little consideration to the kids at HES for once. Our children know their teachers, love their school, and take pride in being dolphins. It has been instilled in them since the day they walked in the door. Take that apart, and suddenly you have an entire school full of kids who no longer have the place they love. Whether you think we're a bunch of elitist racists or not, our kids are just that... KIDS. Our kids deserve respect and consideration too.
I don't care about year-round schedule vs. traditional. I don't care what the color of the skin is of my child's classmates. I don't care what the kids are wearing or how much money their moms and dads make. I love my child and I simply want nothing but the best for him.
sorry- my first one had a typo! please post this one
“It's obvious to me and the other people outside of the CES-HES population that the majority of HES parents are more interested in staying separate from the other families in Orange County. Stop blaming these children because they are "failures" in your eyes.” -E
Well I now know what the “E” DOESN’T stand for- enlightened, ethical, even-handed, equalizing, egalitarian, educated… I am an HES parent- I have NEVER taken the stance that it is the children’s fault. I don’t believe it’s the parents’ fault. I don’t believe it’s the teachers’ fault. The blame, if any, lies with a well-intentioned yet poorly executed law that forces children to become average students to obtain the goal of passing a test. Below-grade students are overwhelmed and blamed for poor performance. Above-grade students are forced to repeat the same lessons over and over in the hope that they will somehow inspire those who have not yet done so well. The teachers are rewarded with bonu$e$ if the children pass; those whose children repeatedly fail are fired. Oh- and if you do pass, they raise the bar. Eventually you’re going to have elementary school students forced to meet ridiculously high goals. Quantum physics for 3rd grade? Anyone? Anyone? It takes more than a student, more than a parent or a loving home, more than a teacher, more than a law, to make children want to succeed in school or elsewhere. “E” has taken the low road here and is using the same tactics the BOE has used to divide the community over what we should be coming together to solve. I am outraged that a so-called educator in the Orange County Schools (or anywhere for that matter) would stoop to that level and assume that “the majority of HES parents” or of any particular school are elitist, stuck-up, holier-than-thou, rich snobs out to shelter their children from the “undesirables”- that IS what you called them, isn’t it?- because they don’t have the same clothes, car, or house. How dare you make such assumptions! If this is the way you treat your students’ parents, I suggest both you and the Board find another line of work. I am nowhere near the level of income you think I am. Most of the parents I know at HES are in roughly the same boat (and for the record, no, I do not own a boat). Yes, there are a few who are “privileged” enough to have expensive cars or live in big, fancy houses. The ones I know who do work pretty damn hard to get it and keep it. Some are stay-at-home moms (who, BTW, work harder than you could ever imagine). I picked HES for one reason: the calendar. High test scores were a big plus, but just confirmed what I already believed: that year-round students have a better track record of learning and retaining that information. I knew that the year-round schedule would work better for my son than the traditional schedule because of the way he learns. Or rather, struggles to learn. Oh! What’s that? You didn’t know that not all of the HES students were A++ performers? Well, whaddayaknow- maybe you could learn something if you got off your high horse and tried communicating with the people who actually DO know what’s best for the children of OCS. That would be the parents. When we applied for kindergarten 2 years ago, there was a waiting list to get in. Obviously, somebody else agrees with me. Either you want year-round and you get a good education to boot, or you want the high test scores, which means learning is going on, and you adjust to year-round scheduling. No one wants to send their children to a failing school. No one wants their children to fail. I don’t know anybody who wants any of the OCS children to fail. Socio-economics has nothing to do with it at this point. That was a convenient smoke-screen for someone’s agenda to try and balance what they perceived as a too-white school. There. I said it. You and the Board aren’t put off because the FRL is too high here, too low there; this is a power play and you are losing. A bad idea grew worse and worse, and now you can’t get out of it without looking like idiots. I say ‘fess up and move on. You’re wasting time- next year you’ll have the “undesirables” of Efland-Cheeks to deal with as well.
It takes a lot to make me so angry that I feel the need to respond to an anonymous blog posting. I’m tired of the attacks on HES, the students, the teachers, the administration, and the parents. I’m tired of the attacks on CES. Believe it or not, I’m tired of the attacks on the BOE. I was raised in a family of educators- I know my rights. I know my children’s rights. I know what your responsibility is as an educator. I know what the responsibilities are of the Board. I said it before and I’ll say it again: HES didn’t start this fight. Neither did CES. Our children- all of the children in OCS- are the ones who are suffering. I’m not going to debate the socio-economic factors of parenting or teaching or how hard it is to raise a child. I don’t have the energy and you don’t have the right. The illegalities of the Board’s actions should be investigated. I challenge everyone who reads this blog, who has a child in OCS, or who cares about the future of our school system and our children-- Quit whining. Quit the name-calling and racial overtones. Quit wasting time and money. Recognize what it working, at both HES and CES, and do what it right for our children. Maybe then you can truly achieve what is best for the children of Orange County.
-TKM
E - Clueless people like you are part of the problem. Either stick with the facts and follow the issue or just read and keep quiet.
You obviously do not get the big picture here.
The frustration level of everyone has increased immensely this last month. We are all getting more uptight, awaiting on the next decision by our Board.
First of all, HES parents are not better nor worse than any other parents. I'm sure there are some parents that are labeled elitists because they may not communicate their feelings effectively on this blog. I am not a great writer, and I am also misunderstood, too.
My thoughts on the Board: I know 6 of the 7 members (I have never met Liz Brown), and have an open dialogue with each of them. They are decent, inteligent people. I have also communicated to each of them that I could not openly support this plan in the current form. They really appreciated my feedback. They may not agree with my stance, but they still understood my situation.
I can honestly say that I do not know many of the CES families or the EC families, simply because I live in the Cameron Park district. I don't even know much about the families in my own district. To illustrate this example, I have lived in my house for 11 1/2 years, and I am still meeting people in my neighborhood who have been their before my time! What does that say about me? My thoughts are that I get wrapped up in my life and do not even reach out much to my neighbors.
Let's give the task force a chance. I attended 1/2 of the first meeting, and was happy to see lots of energy and ambition from its members. This may not be the answer, but at this time, I have no other solutions. Is the task force independent of the Board? Short answer: no. Does it have to be? No. Last question: Does the task force have enough integrity and objectivity to their assignment? I feel the answer is yes. I know several of its members, and I have complete confidence that they will give their best.
Again, let's forget about what has been said and instead concentrate on developing a plan that will make all of us in the Orange County School System proud.
Jim West
"CES is not a failure in MY eyes. It is the BOE that has brought this whole issue to light - not the parents.
Dear E - you aren't listening.
CES is failing. B/c it is not doing well and has a high FRL, the board wants to merge it. HES parents aren't the impetus for change."
I'm confused. Is CES failing or not failing? I agree with the last blogger that we do not communicate effectively, and therefore misunderstood.
Is Central Failing? It's clear as mud, can't you see?
Dennis Whitling said that the current situation of CES and HES will not remain the same. Reading between the lines, what he meant was....HES will not continue with low FRL and passing scores within a block of CES which has super high FRL and low AYP scores.
Re: whether CES is failing depends on who you talk to. Their scores improved greatly this past year, however, many students opted out for 07-08 and the real question is were those students ones that helped the EOGs or hindered the passing? Could be a very interesting testing time in May.
So - if I ask the average tax payer, what I hear is that Central has always had issues due to its location in a poorer section of town. If I ask a BOE member, CES is suffering greatly and the teachers are drowning b/c it is so hard to teach children who come from poverty. If I ask a Central parent, what I hear is that they need help, but don't want major changes. They feel totally screwed by the redistricting and they are tired of feeling like the punching bag for the district. The parents I know believe that both the BOE and HES parents have been insensitive - including yours truly.
Other parents are a little confused b/c with the opt out choice, the only families at CES are ones that chose to stay. In my mind, if you chose to stay, you must really like the school and therefore, it isn't failing in parent satisfaction!
So it depends are what aspect of the school you are evaluating. CES has some really happy parents, some children who have less money than most and some teachers who are doing the best damn job that they can while dodging punches from the public.
I guess I have rocked the boat on your site. Obviously some of you who do not even know me feel the need to discredit me. I hope you feel better.
A parting thought for everyone. HES's parents have burn a lot of bridges in the community. When the merger happens, many of you will try to move into your districted school. Do you think they will embrace you after what has happened?
E
Dear E:
You have discredited yourself by not sticking to the facts and by throwing barbs. You have attacked HES parents without facts and with your "parting thought" have continued the fallacy that HES parents are in the wrong.
And guess what? We are wonderful, caring parents who will be welcome at our districted schools. I'd hate to be a BOE member though - those are the kids who are marked, not us.
I can say this E - we won't miss your misinformation. Enjoy whatever pot you try to stir next. People like you are a magnet for trouble. There is a saying that goes something like this: If you have a problem with everyone else, chances are you are the problem.
Have a nice life - E. I hope E stands for ELSEWHERE!!!!
Actually, yes, I think the people of our community will embrace us. Most people can appreciate someone who stands strong for what they believe in. Most people can also appreciate a parent who protects their children and wants what is best for them.
You portray us all as bigots, but the majority in the community who aren't involved in this, see our points and say they would do the same thing.
I am willing to take the chance and see how my community accepts my child in our new school!
To anonymous November 13, 2007 5:01 AM:
Please stop your petty name calling and insults because it makes HES parents look bad. I tell my child to count backwards from 20 when they are mad. I am also mad, but I rather debate the facts.
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